Screen Time

When should kids get phones? 

Tell us your argument stories! 

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  When We Disagree is a show about arguments, how we have them, why we have them, and their impact on our relationships and ourselves. 

This show tells argument stories. When We Disagree focuses on arguing, disputing, disagreeing as something we all do, a meaningful behavior that affects how we view ourselves and our relationships. Sometimes we leave arguments feeling pride that we stuck up for ourselves, for total hard truth. Sometimes we leave arguments feeling guilty, because we said way too much.

Sometimes we leave feeling confused. When we disagree, tell stories of arguments of all kind, and the ones that are especially important to us. Today's guest is Thomas, from Maryland. Thomas, tell us an argument story. 

Uh, so the argument story I've got is one that kind of happened many times, uh, growing up, um, so with my parents, probably fourth, fifth grades when it started, but I'd say the main body of this, this debate we had was probably my middle school days.

And initially it was, uh, can I have a phone? Right, all my friends are getting phones.  And then it became social media was the big thing in middle school. I wanted Instagram, Snapchat, all my friends had it and my parents were always like, no. Which was, which was wise, but it became the subject of a lot of tension in the household over the years.

What were your arguments to have a phone and to have social media? 

Oh, I mean, always very shallow, like You know, but my friends have it and what's the big deal, you know, what could I do? They don't, they don't do bad things on social media. You know, what's the worst thing you can do? What's the worst thing you can see? 

And, uh, I, I'd never just really understood. And I think growing older and kind of seeing the, like how, how negative it is. And the more you, you put yourself in the world and the world becomes bigger for you realize how small social media kind of makes your world  and how you kind of can, can shrink into, uh,  um, what's the word I'm looking for?

I don't know. Your world just becomes smaller. Yeah. And condensed and your, your view of it becomes much more 

narrow. How many times do you think you had this fight with your parents? I mean, eventually, presumably, you got both social 

media and the phone. Yeah, yeah. So The, the, the agreement was always, you know, when you're in high school, um, you can, you can download Instagram, you can have Snap.

And that, that's what happened. Uh, so freshman year I got it, but  A couple of times a year at a minimum. I mean, I would, you know, get in trouble at school for doing something small and minor and get, you know, lunch detention or something. And I'd lose my phone, which I wasn't allowed to bring to school.

That was another big thing. So all my friends would have their phones at school. I had to leave mine at home each day. And, uh,  so, I mean, that would happen maybe two, three times a school year. So that's two, three arguments. You know, but, but they can do this, why can't I do this?  And, uh,  so yeah. What were your 

parents arguments?

Let's take the phone. Let's start there and then go to social media. What did they say to you? So, 

it's funny. I have this, this clip that vividly plays in my head all over, like all the time. And it's my dad saying, I, I got in trouble for something. And he like took my phone as a punishment. Which is pretty common, I would say. 

And he was talking and he was saying like,  See, this is your drug. This is your drug. I'm taking your drug. And you are now on withdrawal. And it's me, like, whining and throwing a fit and going crazy about him taking my phone. And, oh, I'm just like, it's not fair. It's not fair. You know, middle school me. And looking back, it's like, he couldn't have been more spot on.

Like, it's, it's, it's addicting. It's a drug.  And it was my drug in middle school. I was on it all the time when I was home.  And,  I don't know, it's one of those things where, I mean, massive conflict at home. Probably the only time I really strongly,  like, grinded at the gears of the relationship I had with my parents.

Will you describe the conflicts themselves? Were the conflicts frustrating, emotional, angry? It 

was probably the only time I really, like, cause I've always been someone who's avoided conflict. Um, I'm very  When I talk with people, I don't really bring up issues the way some people are very confrontational.

Um, and it was the only thing probably with my parents that I ever,  you know, raised my voice or got really upset about and really tried to stand and defend my case, which just goes to show, I think, kind of how,  um, addicting, I guess is the word that kind of thing was for me. I guess 

my question about that, because I have I have youngish children and as so I identify both with the position of somebody who doesn't want to be left out and your friends have  social media so you have a FOMO and it's also a piece of social connection.

So if there's a world transpiring through these devices or on these systems that you can access as a middle schooler or high schooler, that's absolutely massive. And then I'm from a parent angle, obviously very concerned about safety, about information, about bullying. 

And just, I think the biggest thing is habits. 

And it's really easy to develop a habit of just.  Yeah. Um, and I think that's kind of what my parents wanted me to avoid and I think the realization kind of just happened this year,  honestly, for me of like  my middle school years, I had a really, really good time at school, like more so than high school, I'd look forward to going to school, maybe outside of like my senior year when everything's fun and easy. 

Um, but in, in middle school, I really had like, I didn't mind going to school, but it's cause I didn't have a phone. I didn't have, Like this, this means of distraction when things weren't going my way. So, you know, when school was hard, you were just, you kind of like leaned in. You just did school and socially, like you were just much more engaged with your friends, your teachers and everything.

Cause you just don't have the outlet and it became kind of a,  I don't know, I don't really have a word for it, but it, it definitely was liberating and I didn't know it then, but I think now I kind of look back and I'm like,  it's probably the best thing for me. I developed social skills.  

It's interesting.

You look back on this repeated argument. It was kind of the one fight you kept having with your parents. And it was 

the one thing I was probably the most wrong about, 

yeah. And that's where I was going, was now hearing you sitting here today, you sound so identified with your parents position, and so unidentified with your middle school position.

Will you talk about that? Is that strange to To see the world through your parents eyes or to see how true their 

arguments were for you? It, it like reminds me of that Geico commercial where it's like helping young adults not become their parents. That's exactly what I think about. Um, I, I don't know. I,  I kinda like that, that.

Um, that maturity and like that kind of realization of like, all right, you know, let's put your pride aside. Like they're right about this one.  Um, and I think just generally accepting lessons that your parents taught you beforehand and it goes for anyone accepting them as you get older. Cause a lot of people hold on to grudges about arguments they had growing up  is it's only going to do good if you, if you can kind of move on from all that kind of stuff, all the arguments you had, was it helpful for your relationship with your folks to be able to see a million  percent.

I, I think middle school, And the first half of high school was probably the most disconnected I was with my parents. And it's only, I've only exponentially grown in my relationship with them since then, as you kind of accept.  And, like, it's one of those things where, like, if I still lived with them now, I don't know that I would have learned the lesson.

So, you know, being in college, being away, having to do things for yourself, then you kind of resonate with what they tell you a lot more.  Um, but for sure I've grown a ton 

since then. There's this cliché that somebody of my age might think is true, and I'm curious about somebody of your age and how you think it's true, that you grow a little older and wiser and then it's easier to see the world through your parents eyes.

Yeah. 

Is that, do you think that's what's happening here? That's the Geico commercial, yeah. That's exactly what it is. It's like,  yeah, I don't know, you move away and  Hard things happen and you don't have a safety blanket and you're like, oh, you know, all right, they're right. Fine. Hmm. 

Well, describe your relationship, not just with your parents, but with this, this device and with the social media system that they were so worried about.

Do you have a phone today? Are you on your phone now on social media? 

I think I'm, I'm at the risk of sounding cocky. I think I'm more aware of the negatives of social media and a phone.  Partially because of that. Partially just because even since then, I think my parents have been really diligent in trying to make sure that I don't become  a social media, like, junkie on my phone all the time.

Like, even, you know, when  kind of restrictions were lifted for me in high school and such, it was still kind of like, let's mitigate.  Um, I think I had like a screen time restriction on my phone all the way until I was probably like a senior. Yeah. Um, so just kind of having, it always made me crave. That was my, I would say that was my biggest argument with them at the time.

It always made me crave  like my phone and social media more, just not having it. And my argument was kind of like, hey, you give me this freedom now as a 12, 13, 14 year old. And I learned to manage it myself, which I don't. It's hard to say that didn't happen. So I can't, you know,  scientifically be like, Oh, it would have, um,  but I definitely, you know,  senior year of high school, maybe even freshman year of college a little bit, had a little bit of, uh, I'm free and you kind of slip into that hole of,  You just do whatever you want all the time, which is rarely  what's good for you.

You can hear your dad's voice in some way, he's saying, this is your drug, and some of us seek out drugs for freedom, and you're saying, I want to be freedom from this, have freedom from this, and he's doing the same thing, he's saying the same thing to you.  

It's very full circle, yeah.  

Thomas, thanks so much for coming on the show.

No problem, thank you. 

When We Disagree is recorded at the College of Charleston with creator and host Michael Lee. Recording and sound engineering by Jesse Kunz and Lance Laidlaw. Reach out to us at whenwedisagree  at gmail. com